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 Training Climbing Roses

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Garden Sherpa
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:09 am

Betty it will climb but not like Lamarque or New Dawn or Lorraine Lee which are real climbers. Crep will send out masses of shoots in all directions but if you keep pruning the ones you don't want (I use a hedge trimmer to do this) you will eventually "espalier" it to the direction you want and then if you let it go it will be glorious but will continue to need pruning so that it does not form a large mound. I love my crep along my verandah rail but there are 4 creps there - far too many - and this winter I might remove one. I have 3 more creps on my front fence which are not climbing along but again forming large mounds but I don't care there. It is like the Sahara there - no water - and dry dry soil and they survive on the rain we get here which is more than you get. I will move the one I dig out down there.

It was a photo in a magazine about 20 years ago that 'reminded' me that my childhood dream was to live in the country. It was a old wooden house with a curving hedge of crep right up to the door. It was truly magnificent and I almost burst into tears looking at that beauty. I did not get my curving hedge as that is not appropriate here but I got my wooden house in the country. Dreams are important.

My dream now is me riding Elle and it is starting to happen, at least in my arena with my instructor. I guess your dream is water. I will focus on that dream!
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Little Miss The Estate
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:14 am

Lorraine Lee is a great one Betty, evergreen and flowers late in the season, mine is budding up again and I think it would do well up your way Betty I love you
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Betty
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:46 am

Sorry, Cheryl, Lorraine Lee is no favorite with me. Mum had it right along the front fence and I didn't (oops, have to edit this) LIKE it.
The heat killed the Golden Showers rose I had so must try to get it again, or Climbing Gold Bunny. But as I say, I need to study the climbers a bit. I very much liked Vanguard, let to grow wild as a climber at a local Nursery, and they are going to grow me one or two.





Last edited by Betty on Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Little Miss The Estate
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:54 am

My golden showers is a great climber banana banana banana and repeats 2 - 3 times each season and it always the first to bloom, but then most of my yellows do scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:07 pm

Betty - that looks like a lovely bush - what is the pink rose in your thread?

Of all the climbers, one you cannot go past is Crimson Glory. At a recent talk on roses I learnt that a large percentage of modern roses - something astounding like 70% but I have forgotten - have Crimson Glory somewhere in their parentage - where's Simon (TasV) when you need him?

I call it Sophia Loren as it is a voluptuos red rose like none other - although my new Red Pierre is also not bad. But Crimson GLory is lovely and it is a climber and it is TOUGH (plants of mine left in the sun and neglected dug up and roots in the sun and then finally thown in a bucket of water and forgotten for a month then thrown in a hole and still it survives). Strikes like the proverbial ....

Would you like me to strike a cutting of the Glory for you? I did post it on the old thread but it is too hard for me to go down and photogrpah it and download to PB and all that.

It is a different red to Dark Lady - more ... crimson and it is quite thorny. But should cope with your drought OK once established.
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:52 pm

Yes need to send him another email re new home scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:43 am

Pamela, according to the people at the Nursery, that pink rose is Vanguard. I have asked them to grow one or two for me, would you like me to get them to do an extra(or more) for you? I can't find it on a rose site, but then I've only just started my search.
Crimson Glory sounds lovely, tough enough to be the rose I need to grow on the huge stump of a big tree that we can't shift too easily out in the orchard, and I'd rather fancied a red too. Just let me check if I can't get it down here first, if I can't then I'll take you up on your very kind offer.
Cheryl, I do love yellow roses(and reds, and pinks LOL - need I go on?), so I was just so disappointed when Golden Showers died here. I bought it as a fairly weak plant though, at the same time I got my first Zepherine Drouhin, and unfortunately it got more of the sun through that real hot spell than the latter. Still, I thought both were dead, seems a minor miracle to me that Zepherine Drouhin came back to life.
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:16 pm

Puzzled Betty as Vanguard is a rugosa and is creamy yellow with pink blend - I have seen it at a knowledgeable rose person's display garden and it looks nothing like that. The pink rose you picture is so pretty. But I bet it is not Vanguard. Does it matter?
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:05 am

They are adamant that it's Vanguard, can't budge them on that, Pamela. I might tell them what you said though, see if that will cast some doubt in their minds. Me, I don't care, I definitely want that rose. It has a beautiful perfume as well as being a very pretty rose.
Although I have seen it looking as you describe, this is what an English site said.

Unique to us in the UK. (Rugosa) A large shrub bearing large, semi-double blooms of bronzy salmon. Fragrant with a chamois leather texture to the petals. Large glossy foliage. A hardy cultivar.

Then Everyrose.com says

Vanguard

Hyb. Rugosa, Salmon/Coral Orange

Flowers: Semi Double, Large, Moderately Fragrant
Petals have a texture like chamois
Flowering Habit:
Blooming Season:

Height: 8 feet x 6, Habit: Shrub
Foliage: Large sized Shiny
Buds:
Hips:
Stems:
Thorns:

Cultivation: Good for Hedging , Shade Tolerant , OK in Poor Soil
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
Hardiness: This rose is reported hardy through USDA Zone 3

Hybridizer: Stevens - 1932
Patent:
Parentage:

ARS Colour: op Orange Pink ARS Rating:
Awards:

Also known as:

Averages of Responses from EveryRose.com visitors:

Garden Rating Average: 9.0 / 10
Fragrance Rating Average: 0.5 / 3
Cut Flower Rating Average: - / 10
Exhibition Rating Average: - / 10

Comments:

This is one of the best shrubs... (paul b, Corvallis, OR)
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:09 am

Forgot to say, Pamela, that I have a Crimson Glory cutting possibly on its way on Tuesday, or Wednesday? When does the mail start again? So, thanks again, but I'm right for that one. Just wish me luck.
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:49 am

I have seen the blooms of Vanguard at a rose meeting and they were definitely more salmoney creamy pink with some yellow tinges than the photo you show which looks like a clear DA pink but ... things vary in different climates ... and it was a year or more ago. The foliage is the give away and rugosa foliage is unmistakeable. There are few rugosas in that colour range with Agnes being a yellow (I think it is Agnes, I have her) and Vanguard being a pinkey yellow blend or salmon as the site says. I remember loving the bloom that was brought to the meeting and wanting her also. I was also told she does not bloom that often.

Is the foliage a rugosa? I cannot tell from the photo. I can photograph some rugosa foliage for you if you do not have any to compare.
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:47 am

It's all a matter of opinion perhaps. To me descriptions like "Salmon/Coral orange" , "bronzy salmon" and "Orange pink" seem to match this rose


more than it would a rose that is , as you first said, a creamy yellow with a pink blend. But maybe it doesn't really fit either rose come to think of it. ROTFL.
If you look at the Vanguard at this sight

http://underconstruction.theoldrosarian.com/id22.html

then compare the foliage in both photo's, the small roses in the background, the colour of the roses etc., I just think it's the same rose, and the Nursery people seemed very sure of it.
That's a nice site actually. Some of the Rugosas are beautiful.

I just mentioned this rose to my sister and as usual, as I was talking to her, she was picking up roses books, and she did find Vanguard and said it is an apricoty pink.
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:21 am

Thanks for that site. Lovely roses in his/her garden.

It does say the bloom can change - forgotten the word they used - and maybe the bloom brought to the rose meeting was an older bloom.

But there are few rugosas in that colour range and so the nursery can be sure if it is indeed a rugosa as they have the ridge indentation on the leaves - a bit like a golden elm which no other type of rose has. I cannot tell that from the photos of the leaves but the nursery would and that is likely why they are so sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:29 pm

Wish I could call in and take a look on my way through town tomorrow, Pamela, I mean look for the ridge indentation, but I will have Cuddles on board, hopefully with lots of stitches in her hind leg, so wouldn't dare leave her alone. Are all Rugosas very prickly, or only some? Didn't know that about the ridge indentation btw.
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:08 am

Hi All,
I took a look at Vanguard. It seems to be correctly ID'd to me.

Vanguard has one parent that is a Pernetiana. Pernetianas are very early HT's x R. Foetida.
The other parent is a cross of R. Wichurana to Rugosa.
So there is only 25% Rugosa in this rose.

Climbing form, once blooming, leaf type and bloom colour would all fit. It also looks just like the other roses of this name. The colour seems to range from med to pale in intensity, likely depending on the weather and the age of the of the bloom.

Because of the parentage of this rose, (pernetiana, wichurana and some Hy Perpetual in the HT line) I would be investigate if this rose get blackspot severely. I also read it can get rust.
Hope this helps a little.
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:04 am

Thanks so much for that info, Cree1. I'm pretty new to roses so sorry if this is a stupid question. Is there a certain time of the year that roses get black spot and rust? The foliage looked okay in my photo's, which is why I ask. I can check it out again, any time.
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:05 am

Hi Betty,
Not a stupid question at all and you are spot on.
Fungal diseases are climate dependent. There are several common ones, mildew, blackspot and rust, with rust being the worst as it can kill your rose and is very hard to control. It all depends on the climate of your area and the season. For example, I do not get rust here, just can't grow in my climate. I get mildew in early spring and late autumn and black spot from the first flush in spring through to winter.
When I look at once blooming roses, leaf quality is very important to me (since for 10-11 months of the year there will be no flowers). I can't say what if any fungal diseases you would get in your garden. And even a rose growing down the road can behave differently in your garden. So often you just have to try and find out. However some roses are known to have a certain problem, so if you know you get this problem in your garden then you can pretty well guess that this roses would be affected. Roses with a strong pernetiana background are notorious for getting black spot for example. Whether this roses has taken after that rose in it's lineage I do not know.
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PostSubject: Re: Training Climbing Roses   Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:36 am

Oh dear , so the fact that this rose is just fine 7 miles away, doesn't mean it will be here. Okay, so I just buy it and try it then. I trust the nursery people(local country folk) so will ask if they've had any problems anyhow. I didn't know it flowered just once, but I think Pamela is right, some of them are worth the wait, and looking at that nice green foliage sure beats looking at dry, browned off paddocks anyway.
Whereabouts are you, Cree1, somewhere very dry?
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