Re the Iceberg climber, my poor thing was given to me and as I had no where to plant it I shoved in my small wooded area which happened to have an archway. I feed it maybe once a year, water it when I remember, however, most of that area relies predominately on rain. It is approx 6ft high and a foot or 18" wide...I tie the stray canes to the archway as it is close to a walkway. It is thorn-less, has very few disease problems and must be as tough as boots to survive my neglect.